In class we're considering what philosophy is and why we should bother with it (assuming that we should). I've had you discuss the objection that philosophy is dangerous, and so we should set it aside here. Now I'd like you to consider some other objections one might raise. For example:
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| Study philosophy? I'd rather watch this guy. |
(2) It's trivial. Nothing important is discussed.
(3) It's a waste of time. There are better, more important things we could be doing with our time.
(4) It's a waste of time. We never get anywhere. We never make any progress. There are no answers to these questions anyway.
Discuss those objections. Do they have any merit? How might one respond to these objections in defense of studying philosophy? How would you respond to these objections? Would you respond with a hearty "amen!" or do you think that there's something plausible to say in response?
Perhaps you think that there are other objections to studying philosophy worth considering. In fact, you've already written on this. So, if there are other objections, what are they? Are they good objections? Why or why not?
Be sure to interact with each other. And be sure to do so with grace and humility.
65 comments:
(1) Some people have little understanding towards philosophy. They bundle it into the category of useless knowledge. Some don’t want to know it, and even don't want to seek it. Although I remember at the beginning of the year my Dad mentioned he didn’t get anything out of his philosophy class, I still believe it isn’t useless at all. As I read in Brian Leftow’s essay “From Jerusalem To Athens”, Leftow mentions, “I believe that the Christian faith tells me the truth about God and the world in broad outline. For me, philosophy is an effort to fill in the details and resolve the difficulties my beliefs face.” I believe this is a great point because it shows how philosophy isn’t pointless and helps resolve difficulties Christians face in Christianity. Understanding concepts like the trinity, creation, and life after death are mind-boggling. Using philosophical principles like knowledge, mind, and reason can help when facing difficulties in your faith.
(2) Important things are discussed in philosophy like Logic, Metaphysics, Aesthetics, and even correlations to Christianity. Like I said earlier, using philosophical principles like knowledge, mind, and reason can help when facing difficulties in your faith.
(3 and 4)
I don’t believe it is pointless. I believe questions can be answered using God’s word. Obviously not all answers, for we won’t know everything until Christ comes back. We may lack some knowledge and understanding but giving up isn’t an option. Quitting would be useless. Using philosophical principles like knowledge, mind, and reason can help us answer some of these questions. As long as we tie biblical principles into it as well.
- Christopher Williamson
In response to the oppositions of studying philosophy, here are my opinions.
1) It is not useless, for it gives us insight into whatever we are studying and it allows us to study our profession or interests better. If we did not ask any questions, how will we ever inprove our knowlege?
2) Tied in with one, there are many important things to discuss for example, if no one bothered to look for the anwer of is the earth flat, where would we be?
3) For all those out there that have questions, there is nothing more important to do than to find those answers.
4) Supposing that there are no answeres to our questions, how will we know until we actively search to find them. And even that is considered progress for we are taking a step toward something even if it does not get us the results we want.
Denida Chapman 11:00
Points number one and three are closely related and make a fairly strong objection. Philosophy does not seem to accomplish anything, and in the world there is much that needs to be accomplished. Instead of "wasting time" discussing matters it appears that we should attempt to implement change in the world.
However, I believe that these objections overlook the source of change. Ideas of change do not magically appear in the heads of multitudes of people over night. Instead, some great mind practices philosophy and determines that something is wrong in the world. It's because of philosophy that we have concepts such as fairness, equality, and liberty. If no one had ever sat down and decided that oppression was unacceptable and that it was possible for a people to govern themselves, we might all be ruled by dictators.
Philosophy is involved in nearly every discipline, and it has been used to come up with many important concepts that have led to change. Without the ideas of philosophy to direct action, all the protesting in the world will do no good.
One example of this could be the "Occupy Wall Street" protests. While the protesters communicated their ideas on the alleged corruption of Wall Street and the injustice present in our nation, there were no clear ideas about how to implement change. Although they were taking action, they had no real ideas to take action upon. As a result, change did not take place. That is why philosophy and thinking critically before taking action is so essential.
Dave D. - 1100
There are many who probably believe and support those objections to philosophy. They do not understand the importance of philosophy. Many sciences have started out in the philosophy section and now are specific areas of studies. This shows that philosophy does have answers and progress. There are probably many questions where answers are not as easy to find but that does not make it pointless or unnecessary. Also philosophy seems to discuss important questions about our existence or why things are the way they are, it is not a waste of time. Just because it may not be applicable to everyone does not make it unimportant. Philosophy can be personal contemplation about questions that seem relevant to one’s own life.
In class we had talked about the idea that philosophy is a part of everyone’s career path or goals, such as mine which is law. Questions like what is justice? How far do you go to do your job? Is it okay to defend a guilty person? These are very relevant and important. It would be worth it to me to contemplate these questions. Philosophy has an important role in everyone’s life. Some people may decide that it is pointless and never question anything but I believe it is everyone’s best interest to pursue some type of philosophy whether full time or just whatever is relevant to one’s personal goals.
I believe that these claims can all be refuted. I do however agree with pieces of them, and I'll cover those individually as we get to them.
1)I think it's rash to claim anything as useless. Sure discussing the finer point of the 10th dimension might be absurd in my thinking but to someone else, their whole life could be based around that principle. In the same way some can say that philosophy is useless, others can claim that religion is useless. Does that stop me from pursuing what I find value in? Certainly not. So in response, nothing is useless. But we don't all value the same things. I would say that philosophy is useful to anyone. But people don't have to agree with my statement to make it true.
2)The next point is very similar to the first. These people say, "sure philosophy could be useful, but it's not really important." A TV power button is useful, it turns on and off the TV. But it's not important to someone who never watches TV, or doesn't have a TV in the first place. In the same way Philosophy is clearly not important to everyone. Some people enjoy not knowing, or even wrestling to find truth. I think that everyone at some level has a desire to search for answers...whether they think so or not. Not to say it's a priority to them. In my opinion it should be. Socrates says it best, "The un-examined life is not worth living."
3)The 3rd claim says it's useful and could be important, but aren't there other areas that we could pour ourselves into to get more results. Now this issue does strike a chord with me. I can understand this. Why wrestle with one aspect of life mentally, and ignore the other issues of life. I think Philosophy is a start, but not a means to an end. In the end, you just have traveled a long way and you are satisfied with the knowledge you have acquired. What have you done to change the world? Even developing a rational argument to defend Christianity only goes so far. The poor and destitute are among us and if we ignore them, I would question whether we know God at all. So while there is good in Philosophy, if it just stops at knowledge it's not living up to its potential. We should apply the knowledge to impact the world.
4.)I think this is another very valid point. I have stated in my BAP's that Philosophy is less about finding answers and more about the journey itself. It's struggling with issues and thinking critically. So what if we don't come to definitive conclusions? At least we are searching. At least we are trying to understand our infinite God with our finite brains. I would say the journey is essential and more influential than the answers themselves.
-Matt Jackson
I feel philosophy may be useless if it is used as a way to not deal with anything. Since the answers to the questions you face in life do not tangable answers that are definate, then why bother? It is useful however, as someone else commented on to: "help us face the difficulties your faith presents."
Philosophy may be trival, or it can be used to broaden one's mind. It is totally up to each individual.
Nothing is a waste of time if we engage in it whole-heartedly, and ask questions honestly. I do feel the use of the Bible is essential to seeking answers because it leads us to God, the ultimate truth!
Connie D. MWF 9am
In my opinion, I believe these objections are fairly elementary and easily refuted. They seem to be a cop out to keep life simple. Of course, this stems from my passion for understanding perspective. These objections are okay. But following them may narrow one’s mind. Holding on to them may limit one’s life. I believe they have some merit, and are logical to an individual who may enjoy having a narrow life. However, I do think they lack a level of substantial evidence, experience, and complete wisdom to be the best objection to studying philosophy.
1) The love of thought (as the word Philosophy means) is rarely a waste of time. It molds the individual to make more careful and patient decisions. How often has thinking through a situation halted an accomplishment? Thought, in whatever form, is included in the process of reaching a goal. Philosophy challenges and equips the philosopher to be more intelligent in thought.
2) This objection is too general. Not EVERY philosophical discussion is trivial. Several staple arguments in philosophy are influentially provoking. Yes, some discussions in philosophy may become trivial, depending on the philosophers creating them. Philosophy as a whole, however, seeks to overcome triviality of thought.
3) Philosophy creates change in the philosopher, whether or not they acknowledge it. Philosophy is an investment in time. It is patiently processing evidence, experience, and thought in order to make progress in life. This investment creates make progress in the individuals physical, spiritual, emotional, and ultimately mindful aspects of person-hood.
4) Progress is only made when progress is chosen. Yes, it does take quite a bit of time, sometimes even forever, to make progress towards a conclusion. The study of philosophy should not be limited to only coming to a conclusion. The process of philosophy is beneficial just as much as the conclusion.
-Kayleigh Wideman (9am)
Well, I feel like we all feel very similarly on this issue. I’ll add my $0.02.
1.) I wouldn’t say philosophy doesn’t accomplish its goals. Just because conclusive answers aren’t always (or regularly) reached doesn’t mean that nothing was accomplished. I think most of us agree that the search itself is valuable, to refuse to think deeply about life’s fundamental concepts would be mental apathy. I like what Matt Jackson said here, you can’t really call anything useless, even if it isn’t important to you personally. Christopher Williamson also made a nice point in reference to Leftow, philosophy can really help us as Christians to reason through some hard stuff in our faith.
2.) Well, I can see how people feel this way. Many people see no point in questioning what the nature of consciousness is, or bothering with other abstract concepts that seem to be without application. And, I think there are times when people philosophize for the sake of philosophizing, and in those circumstances it is quite possible that they are doing nothing important. Now, I am not saying that questioning the nature of consciousness is unimportant, I am referring to more abstract, inapplicable concepts that some deal with. Philosophy indeed deals with many important issues, like faith, reason, the universe, humanity, morals, etc. These are topics we can’t afford to be comfortable not thinking about.
3.) I’m sure a lot of people feel this way. But, this just doesn’t hold up as an argument. It’s like anything: philosophy is just another job for humans to do in the universe. It’s not for everybody, but somebody’s got to do it. The fact that others don’t see it as important doesn’t make a difference. Every job that a person can have has its own importance. But I like another point that Matt made: just doing philosophy isn’t enough. What good is whatever knowledge you arrive at if you do nothing with it? You have to apply it. Without that, then yes, it would be worth little.
Great point here, Dave, about the Occupy movement. That was totally misguided and undirected action.
4.) Well, again, as we have said: the search for these answers in itself is valuable. Dee Chapman made a good point here, that we have to try at least. How can we know there are no answers unless we search? Perhaps, we could tell at the outset, that a question we are looking into is relatively unsolvable. Even still, consenting to mental apathy and merely giving up isn’t a diligent choice. In the search for answers, you learn a lot. Critical thinking is a valuable skill developed here, and more than that, you may answer other questions along the way you never expected to.
1 and 4 have a lot of force behind them. Somebody could say that philosophy, in its excessively doubtful and questioning nature, can’t answer anything, or at least can’t provide answers that many people can agree upon. Consider presuppositions, we all have them, and we all bring them into our answers to questions. If we have different presuppositions, how can we ever come to a conclusion together? Any of you have anything to add to that?? Interesting stuff… but I would have to respond to that as I have above.
I can definitely see why people would hold to these reasons why studying philosophy is a waste of energy, time, and brain power; however, I disagree. I don’t think that complex ideas, such as studying philosophy ought to be dismissed so easily. The questions philosophy deals with are hard questions--they demand to be thought through carefully and in-depthly. Though an answer cannot always be found, it is better that we be exposed to the ideas and questions rather than being ignorant of the subject entirely.
Dee, I love what you said in your number 4--Actively searching for answers is important because we are taking a step and doing what we can, even if we don’t get answers. It’s so important that we do what we can to understand.
Matt, I really appreciated what you said about philosophy being less about finding answers and more about the journey. So far what we’ve done in class has been good, but frustrating at the same time. I know I’ll never have answers to all of the questions philosophy brings up, so trying to talk through these issues is an interesting challenge. I don’t think philosophy is useless, but I can see why people would suggest that there’s no point. I hadn’t thought about philosophy being about the journey--that makes me so much more positive when thinking about doing philosophy. It will help me to define my thoughts and speculations more, though I know I won’t understand it all. Thanks for bringing up that point.
~Anna Z. MWF 9am
I think that philosophy has its place in society. First of all, I think a lot of the terms used in these arguments are too broad. "Useless", "trivial",and "waste" are vague and unhelpful. I am not claiming to be a lover of philosophy by any means, but I do think it deals with important questions that every Christian should be asking. In fact, it is useful to search for answers to questions that confuse us. Some of the most important issues are discussed in philosophy. Maybe there are more material things you could be doing with your time, but if you think about it, philosophy probably provides the basis for a lot of those endeavors (and if they don't are they worth your time? Food for thought.) I think I most agree with the complaint that we never make any progress. However, I think it ultimately depends on your definition of the progress. That is up to the individual.
Nicole S. MWF 9 am
I disagree with the idea that philosophy is useless. As Leftow claimed, the idea that love of God naturally leads and can be expressed in doing philosophy. We tend to wonder about the things that we love and raise questions concerning what they are about and how they function. Russell also touched on this desire to wonder about the uncertain. He claimed that it was this unknown nature of philosophical inquiry that made it so worthwhile. Stretching the human mind and freeing it from the confines of what was previously thought to be possible is invaluable. On the contrary, one may be inclined to wonder if, after a point, these endless contemplations may become counterproductive. For example, Is questioning the existence of material objects truly a valid pursuit?
This being said, much of what is gleaned from doing philosophy depends on how the philosophy is done. If there is no goal or at least direction to one’s pursuits then, obviously, doing philosophy will not help you reach them. Also, it is ineffective to cite lack of importance as an objection due to the fact that this lies within the context in which philosophy is being done. What is relevant to someone studying biology will be trivial to one in the political science realm.
In regards to philosophy being a waste of time when compared to more important things needing to be done with one’s time that may actually show progress for the work put into them, the placement of priorities must be determined. For those that value physical or definite answers to questions, philosophy will most certainly be a waste of their time. What is important to them will most likely never be found. However, for the Russell’s of the world, just stretching one’s mind and thinking in a way that they never have before is victory enough and, certainly, time well spent.
While I do value the discovery of answers and would prefer to find them waiting at the ends of my pursuits, I do not completely discredit the value of just thinking critically simply for the sake of it. Delving into life’s hard questions is not necessarily a waste, trivial, or useless. While questioning myself into doubting the existence of reality does not sound appealing to me, thinking critically, looking for evidence, and striving toward the goal of forming an answer can be a worth while pursuit.
-Kaitlynn H. 9:00
1&2. While I see how one could come to this conclusion, I think that philosophy definitely can be put to good use. Perhaps not everyone will see it as useful, but the process of asking questions and pursuing the answers to those questions is indeed deeply important. This, in effect, ties in with the claim #2 makes, that philosophy is trivial. I’m sure it can be if questions are asked lightly and without point. But any philosopher that poses a question of importance to them (even if not important to anyone else) is putting philosophy to great use, while at the same time refuting the claim that philosophy is trivial. The answer to some of the questions posed could have a great impact on the actions of the individual posing the questions. The usefulness and triviality then depend on the philosopher, not on the subject of philosophy.
3&4. I think the claim that it’s a waste of time could have some validity to it, considering there are a number of important things that we could be occupying our time with, but then, importance is relative to each person. What is important to one person may not be important to another. However, it is important to not spend all our time thinking. This thinking must accomplish something; otherwise, what is its purpose? What good will reaching a conclusion do if that we do nothing with that conclusion? Rather, philosophy, I think, is best used when upon reaching a conclusion, or gaining knowledge along the journey, those answers/ knowledge are put to good use. It’s similar to the concept found in James 2, “Faith without works is dead.” If the results of philosophy are not put to good use, then I think that philosophy is a waste of time.
Also, while the conclusion to some questions may never be reached, there are some that may be reached. Furthermore, I agree with what Matt Jackson said about philosophy being about the journey itself. Philosophy does cause one to struggle with issues and think critically about them. This in itself is important; it develops character and can help to strengthen one’s beliefs.
-Sarah Lusk MWF 9:00
I feel that philosophy is a very valuable thing, however many would disagree.
Many say that philosophy never accomplishes anything. To this I would argue that it changes one's view of the world. It helps those who study it to think through the difficult things in life, and find answers to difficult questions. Often the outcome is a higher moral standard. This then has a positive influence on those around them as well. In response to (2) I would say ask who determines what is important or not? Philosophers study a broad range of topics, and even if one cannot relate to one study, they could likely appreciate the next. Many simply say philosophy is a waste of time. I can respect this view. Many people get so wrapped up in debating and discussing that they never actually put any action to their beliefs. If this ever becomes the case, then philosophy in my opinion would lose all of its value. However, I do not think all philosophy is a waste of time. If one studies philosophy and uses it as the foundation for their actions, it has great value.
While there are many objections to philosophy, I believe it can be extremely useful when practiced the right way and followed by action.
-Emily S. mwf 9:00
Perhaps the end goal is that you don't have an end goal and that's why you are studying philosophy in the first place because you know there is an infinite amount of knowledge and truth out there. Also, all questions have answers whether you know them are not and whether you like them or not. But there are answers to a lot of questions in philosophy that can be answered in the here and now. As Christians there are a lot of things we don't know but we have faith and we have hope that is what sustains us through the unknown. But we still ask questions and ponder these things.
I liked what Nicole said that philosophy deals with questions that every Christian should be asking. Perhaps, we should be the ones arguing that those not doing philosophy are in the wrong. Wouldn't you want to ask these questions and look for truth or anything that could bring you closer to God?
-Alyssa C (9:00)
(1) - As a Christian philosopher, the pursuit of philosophy has intrinsic value for me, as it confirms in me the truths of God. Philosophical pondering teaches me wisdom and reveals to me more of who God is and what he purposes for my life. If my goal in life is to serve God and know Him more, then philosophy is more than useful but absolutely necessary as I work towards that end. Tim Powers, you made a very astute point when you said, "I think most of us agree that the search itself is valuable, to refuse to think deeply about life’s fundamental concepts would be mental apathy." Right on! Apathetic Christians are as useful to Satan as those he has blinded to the Truth. May God have mercy on us when we choose to serve our own ends and fail to grow in our knowledge and wisdom or to dig deeper into God's Word and worship our Lord and Savior!
(2) - Triviality is indeed subjective as a matter of philosophical comprehension. It seems to me, though, that as we learn what questions constitute as questions to pursue in legitimate philosophical inquiry, or as we learn to take a step back from those truths we hold to be 100% without error, the concept of trivial philosophical practice will seem as ridiculous as claiming we can be our own god (oh wait. . . we do that ALL the time :/ )
(3) - Furthermore, as a Christian, I do believe there are activities far more important in pursuit of philosophical inquiry. The fact of the matter is, my philosophical understanding as led me to believe that there must be God, a higher being, worth serving and worshipping. I believe that this God wanted to communicate to us, through the Holy Scriptures. Therefore, I believe the since this is a book from the almighty God, it is absolutely true. And so, if I believe what this Word says then there is a Christian pursuit of much more value than attempting to contemplate whether God is male or female, for instance. The Gospel message, God sending his Son to die in order to save sinners, it simple to understand and of much more of an extrinsic result of philosophical understanding. It is difficult for me to simply to stop at the intrinsic value philosophy as for me, but there must be a response if I have done philosophy with any sort of care and thoughtfulness.
(4) - Finally, it is true that there is only so much we will ever to be able to grasp in this life, within our finite and insignificant minds. God has shown his sovereignty over our lives by only allowing us to comprehend to a certain limit. This doesn't mean philosophy is useless (and so making null everything I have already related). We don't know that limit. However, it is profitable to know it is there. We should still pursue the hard truths about our world views, seeking to "fill in the gaps" and refute the objections that others pose to us, and in so doing, draw into a more intimate and fulfilled relationship with the One we love.
Adam Olson - 11:00am
My practice of Philosophy has been life changing. I can relate with Adam Olson in his third point. If I had not pursued knowledge and understanding, if I had not asked questions, I would not be saved. Through Philosophical endeavors, I was able to see that there truly has to be a God. I saw evidence of this throughout my life and none of it made sense until I pursued making sense of it and essentially used Philosophy in this way. There just have been clear moments of divine intervention.
Again I must agree with you Adam when in your first point you mentioned intrinsic value. There is an intrinsic value in discovering more about God and His Word and how I am to live in accordance to Him. We are called to form an intimate relationship with God and if Philosophy involves pursuing knowledge and understanding, what better reason to practice Philosophy? This is why I can say that Philosophy has proved to be important and even vital in my life.
(1) Philosophy may not help us with doing our goals, but without it, we may never know what our goals are.
(2) Philosophy deals with the most important things of life. Everything matters in philosophy.
(3) There are better things that we could be doing, but if we understand the basis of the things that we are doing, then we will do them better.
(4) Philosophy is not a waste of time. If we study philosophy, we understand the world and other people better.
The one that truly sticks out to me is where people say that philosophy has no merit because it gets nowhere. In my groups discussion on Friday, we ended back on the same question we had asked in the beginning. Do we drive cars that stay in the same place? This is one of the only arguments that I see that has value.
However, it is not useless, at least not for the practitioner. By practicing philosophy, we can enrich our minds, and strengthen beliefs that are true, and tear down those that are not. Where money is concerned, do philosophers not write books, or have jobs as teachers? There is money to be made in such a position. So in the end, philosophers do have there place in this world, and the practice there of is not totally useless.
On Friday, as a group we discussed these questions and each gave reasoning as to why we opposed arguments 1-4. While some may see it as useless, trivial or a waste, we disagreed and thought that it was somewhat vital to life, especially if you are a follower of God. We touched on how some evangelicals see philosophy in a negative and dangerous life, but we came to a conclusion that if you go back to the root definition of philosophy then Christians should be studying this subject with devote dedication. As Christians we should be lovers of wisdom and in search of truth. Isnt that why we became Christians to begin with? (because we were at some point in search of truth) We also acknowledged the trend of atheism in philosophy education, but did not agree that this meant everyone should disregard the subject and pretend it does not exist. The fact of the matter is, whether we want to call it philosophy or not, almost all humans are searching for some kind of truth or reasoning for life, both believer and non-believer alike. We can disregard the tough questions asked in philosophy and deprive the mind, or we can walk through them together with other Christians and rationally address these issues in ways that God would see honoring.
I see a lot of these objections in my own mind as I contemplate what the point of philosophy is. I would much rather get out and study something that has tangible results and can make a difference for people. But that's just my personality. I'm not a big, deep thinker, but I do realize that there are many questions which remain unanswered and keep me wondering, doubting, and pursuing. I believe philosophy has the power to increase our perspectives and cause us to think outside our normal routine of busy, hectic life. But for someone who is searching for answers, philosophy is probably not the route they should go. It doesn't have to be a waste of time, but for me personally, it would be difficult to spend immense amounts of time going in circles with questions. I see the side of those who object it, but I also believe it is capable of increasing our faith and minds.
Ashtyn B.
I do not believe that the 1st objection has any truth to it. Philosophy is not useless and it depends on your life goals as to if philosophy helps or not. If your goal is having the American dream: a good job, a spouse, kids, and a house, chances are you can get these things without philosophy. However, if you want to make a difference in the world around you and not just have a “good” life for yourself, you are going to have to think deeply about many things and philosophy can help with that. I know for me, I plan to be a missionary. So being able to think deeply about God and Scripture as well as about concepts that are culturally bound, will help me a lot in my ministry to people who will come from a vastly different background than me.
I would not say that nothing important is discussed in philosophy. There are some things discussed in philosophy that I believe to be trivial like the are material objects real question. I don’t understand why that’s an important or even hard question. I can sit in a chair or grab a cup, as can everyone, so I do not understand why that is a question that needs to be asked and discussed. Maybe I just do not understand it. Despite questions like the one of material objects, I would not say that most things discussed in philosophy are not important. There are many questions of God and the world that are very important to think about and be discussed.
Thinking about and considering important questions is not a waste of our time. It is very important to learn the answers to questions about life and God. A lot of times what we believe to be the answers to these questions determine how we live our lives. So philosophy is not a waste of time for this reason. I do feel like the other objection of “it’s a waste of time; it never goes anywhere” may have some merit. In the two discussion classes we have had in philosophy and even some of the discussions we have in the other classes, I feel like a lot of our discussions go in circles. I’m not saying that it’s not important to discuss these things because you can learn different ways to look at things through these discussions, but some of them get very redundant. There’s also a certain point where I can tell my brain just doesn’t care about the question anymore after a few circles because it’s not getting an answer which can be very annoying. I think this objection is more of a lack of patience within our society. We want answers and we want them quick. We don’t have time to go in circles. If we can’t get the answer quick, then it’s not really an important question we need to know the answer to or wrestle with. So it’s not that philosophy is a waste of time as much as we are driven by the immediateness of our society and philosophy takes too long.
I do not believe that the 1st objection has any truth to it. Philosophy is not useless and it depends on your life goals as to if philosophy helps or not. If your goal is having the American dream: a good job, a spouse, kids, and a house, chances are you can get these things without philosophy. However, if you want to make a difference in the world around you and not just have a “good” life for yourself, you are going to have to think deeply about many things and philosophy can help with that. I know for me, I plan to be a missionary. So being able to think deeply about God and Scripture as well as about concepts that are culturally bound, will help me a lot in my ministry to people who will come from a vastly different background than me.
I would not say that nothing important is discussed in philosophy. There are some things discussed in philosophy that I believe to be trivial like the are material objects real question. I don’t understand why that’s an important or even hard question. I can sit in a chair or grab a cup, as can everyone, so I do not understand why that is a question that needs to be asked and discussed. Maybe I just do not understand it. Despite questions like the one of material objects, I would not say that most things discussed in philosophy are not important. There are many questions of God and the world that are very important to think about and be discussed.
Thinking about and considering important questions is not a waste of our time. It is very important to learn the answers to questions about life and God. A lot of times what we believe to be the answers to these questions determine how we live our lives. So philosophy is not a waste of time for this reason. I do feel like the other objection of “it’s a waste of time; it never goes anywhere” may have some merit. In the two discussion classes we have had in philosophy and even some of the discussions we have in the other classes, I feel like a lot of our discussions go in circles. I’m not saying that it’s not important to discuss these things because you can learn different ways to look at things through these discussions, but some of them get very redundant. There’s also a certain point where I can tell my brain just doesn’t care about the question anymore after a few circles because it’s not getting an answer which can be very annoying. I think this objection is more of a lack of patience within our society. We want answers and we want them quick. We don’t have time to go in circles. If we can’t get the answer quick, then it’s not really an important question we need to know the answer to or wrestle with. So it’s not that philosophy is a waste of time as much as we are driven by the immediateness of our society and philosophy takes too long.
oops. Sorry I forgot to put my name the first time.
-Hannah H. (9:00)
Point one; it's not useless it's just misunderstood. The point to any discussion is to help get to the end without a lot of extra work. Therefore philosophy helps us to do that by asking question. When we come up with the answers we can make plans that will get the work done faster and easier.
point two; Well I say your'e wrong, you are not asking the right question. We as a people need to look forward and we have example of doing this in the past. We look at the philosopher of the past, we study there methods and we do the same as they did. The philosopher of the past have worked out all of the bugs so when we do philosophy there shouldn't be ant problem.
point three; Yes this is true. But you would be spending more time of it trying to figure out the plans by not doing philosophy. In business time is money. A company can't afford to make mistakes on construction programs so all the right question need to be asked before the project gets underway.
point four; Well the only stupid question is the one that isn't asked, so doing philosophy is not a waste of time. Having a list of question in your hand before going into a meeting is the fastest way to do a group meeting,making philosophy an easy way of doing business.
T. McMillan 9:00 m w f
I do not believe the aformentioned 4 comments have much merit. In my opinion #1 is completely false. Philosophy has led to the development of new fields and ideas which have absolutely made an impact in accomplishing some of our society's collective goals. Some of the most important questions anyone could ever discuss, such as looking to understand the meaning of our very existence, are covered under the scope of philosophy so I do not believe #2 has a viable foundation. What is important if those questions are trivial? While it may be true that those pondering these question could indeed just be revealing other question and that they could use their time to tangibly effect the situations around them I have already detailed many reasons why their efforts can be just as valuable. In our previous BAP I did mention the fact that in a world devoid of absolute knowledge through faith philosophy is almost always doomed to be defined by assumption, which sort of falls under #4's domain, but I also believe that the attempt to find truth, be it an assumption or fact, is important. We cannot give up the search for truth just because we may not be able to perceive it wholly in our current state.
Nick D. 9:00
As I have learned more about philosophy in the last few years I find it difficult to understand why anyone would think that studying philosophy is useless. The only reason that I can really find for this is that the individual most likely does not really have a firm understanding of what philosophy and what its purpose is. They see philosophy only as the contemplation of lofty and abstract thoughts that have no practical implications on our lives and the way that we live. I think that philosophy is not useless at all. I think that engaging in philosophy is one of the most important things you can do especially when in your upper adolescent years as you are developing many of the beliefs that you will hold for the rest of your life. Because of the serious implications that engaging in philosophy (or the lack thereof) can have on one’s life I think that it might even be foolish to argue that it is trivial or a waste of time, unless of course you consider yourself trivial or a waste of time, which if you do you are wrong to think so.
Ian F. 9:00 MWF
I do not think that any of these objections are valid. These objectives stem from a misunderstanding of philosophy. In regard to point one it does in fact help accomplish things. Individuals are able to process and think about their beliefs to truly understand them and further more consider questions that their faith beings about. I do not believe philosophy is in fact trivial. Philosophy questions basic humans assumptions, such as world view, as well as deep question that have no answers. In regard to point 4 I think that is all relevant to the individual’s opinion. What one views as pointless is vital to another. The point of philosophy is not necessarily to make progress or find answers but challenging thoughts, ideas, believes, assumptions.
Jessie Comeau
9 MWF
1.Philosophy is not useless. If philosophy is not done right, then yes it is useless. Anything that is not done right can be considered useless, because it is not fulfilling its purpose. We just got done reading Leftow’s essay which talks about how closely Christianity and philosophy are related to each other. One naturally leads to the other. Doing philosophy deepens our faith as Christians. Therefore, if anything, it is useful for us as Christians to do philosophy.
2.I do believe that philosophy can be trivial in that some of the ideas discussed in philosophy are trivial to me. However, this does not mean that nothing discussed is ever important. Doing philosophy is not trivial because it creates a well rounded person. Philosophy causes us to think in ways that we normally do not think, and think about the possibility of answers that we normally would not consider. Furthermore, some of the questions that are discussed in philosophy, such as what is the meaning of life, are things that could affect how you live life. That is not something that is trivial.
3.This objection is based off of opinion. What is important to you may or may not be important to me. Also, this objection makes me think that the person who made it has not tried to see if there is any value in philosophy. I would tell someone who made this objection that doing something that is valuable is not a waste of time, and they need to decide if philosophy is valuable after researching why philosophy is valuable.
4.This last objection is the most legitimate objection to philosophy so far on this blog post. It is difficult to see why we should spend time on philosophy when it does not give us concrete answers. However, I would give this response to the objection: We will come across many ethical situations where we have to make a decision on what the right or wrong thing to do is in our careers. What you think of as ethical comes from what you think is good or right, and what is good or right is a philosophical question. Should we not do philosophy in this situation because there is not a concrete answer; therefore, never knowing what is the right thing to do in any ethical dilemma? It might not give us concrete answers, but that does not mean it does not help us think about what the answer could possibly be. And in this case, attempting to answer this philosophical question is valuable because it will help guide us in ethical situations for the rest of our life. This is just one example of where philosophy is valuable and is not a waste of time even though there are not concrete answers to many questions. There are more.
-Madison Pross, 9:00
I just want to respond simply to the 4 objections that were raised in the post.
1) It is hard for me to wrap my head around the idea that any sort of thinking is useless. How can thinking about how to better mankind or ourselves be a bad thing for us? This is how we determine what our end is anyways, by thinking about where we want to go.
2) Trivial? Life isn't important? The possibility of eternity isn't important?
3) This one has some slight backing to it in my opinion. Philosophy spends a lot of time thinking about things and searching for truth and wisdom. While this is good and needed, sometimes we need to act on situations quickly without time to philosophize about what is best. Where I believe this argument is wrong is that we need philosophers in this world. We can not just have every person in the world study to be a doctor, because where would the accountants be to handle the money? or where would the police be to keep the peace? The world needs a mix of people all working together (whether we know it or not) to help the common good.
4) Philosophy can seem like a waste of time, but if we never began philosophizing about things we wouldn't be where we are today. Astronomy, mathematics, and psychology were all once areas of philosophy that have been "answered." But there is little talk of not studying these areas now.
-Zack Gatlin (11:00)
(1) It's useless. It doesn't help us accomplish our ends/goals- I would argue that what may be of use or useless for another person is contingent on that person. To argue that philosophy is strictly useless in all regards is quite the ultimate statement that I would argue against. Philosophy has many uses and has helped with our development of the sciences, and it fulfills needs for people emotionally, spiritually, and/or physically.
(2) It's trivial. Nothing important is discussed- Once again, the question is what then would be considered important? There is plenty to be learned and considered throughout this search for truth; to think that it is unimportant is to throw out and considerations or questions that merely surviving and breathing would arise.
(3) It's a waste of time. There are better, more important things we could be doing with our time- Sure, one may be able to find something "more important" to do with their time, but I believe that the majority of thinking, sciences, beliefs, flow out of some sort of philosophical thought. So then the majority of studies or thinking could be unimportant. What is important is generally relevant to that person.
(4) It's a waste of time. We never get anywhere. We never make any progress. There are no answers to these questions anyway- I completely disagree with this claim because clearly, history has shown that progress has been made. Russell stated in his book that philosophy was once the study of the mind, or the study of the universe and now these areas have branched off into their own sciences. Philosophy has made progress, but that also is based upon what is still considered to be philosophy; it has started somewhere though and really developed.
(9AM)
These are objections to studying philosophy, but they are not flawless arguments. The first objection states that philosophy is useless, yet this in itself seems to be a philosophical position. Determining if something is useless or not is done by the avenue of philosophy. Also this claim says that it doesn't help us accomplish our ends/goals. This seems to be inferring that no ones goal is to study philosophy.
It's trivial and nothing important is discussed. This statement is negated by the history of a variety of disciplines/areas of study that stem from philosophy. Therefore, it would seem the opposite of trivial and one might say pertinent.
It's a waste of time. There are better, more important things we could be doing with our time. I would agree that there are other things that we could be doing with our time, but are they better. This generalization does not hold water. Also stated is you never get anywhere in philosophy and no progress is ever made since there seems to be no answers to the questions anyway. This also seems to have holes in it because, as stated earlier, many disciplines, especially those in the sciences, have seemed from philosophy of the past. This means that it does make progress and there are answers to the questions. I think Denida brings up a good point, that even if there seem to be no answers how will we know until we have actively searched for them.
- Tim Hull (9:00)
It is important for believers to think philosophically about our faith and about how that impacts our life. However, it should not be THE most important thing. When our obsession about philosophy overrides our obsession about Jesus, then it is a problem. We certainly need to have an understanding, and ability to correctly process, serious issues in our world today. It needs to be balanced just as any other love in our life is balanced.
Our focus, our main focus, should be to keep our eyes on Jesus. Each person is driven in different ways. Not everyone is “in love” with philosophy, and should not feel less of a Christian because they love some other discipline…that’s not to say they hate philosophy (you can be “just friends” with philosophy). If we each excel in the areas that God has gifted us in, then we will be a balanced church. We all need what the other is motivated to do. If we have too much philosophy, or too little, then we will be out of balance. Do what you love, don’t look down on others who don’t share your love, and be an active part of the body. That is what will please God.
Denise...
In response to these objections I feel that the main argument that constitutes each and every objection is about the content of philosophy. Any other form of science whether it be Psychology, Biology, Pharmacy, Physics, and so many more that are declared to be valuable and useful to the material needs of life, the valuable information, what constitutes as important to spend time on is all derived from Philosophy. All these such sciences have started from a why question.
Why do people die?
Why do things work the way they work?
Why or How does the human body breathe?
Why do we think the way we think?
all these questions are philosophical questions, and all these questions began these areas of study. But once progression in these areas of life started to developed they were called by another name....
as a child becomes an adult, so philosophy becomes physics... or philosophy becomes psychology. but without philosophy these other sciences would not exist.
just as the Word becomes flesh, so philosophy becomes physics... or philosophy becomes psychology. but the two are still not separated, the first does not disappear.
and therefore philosophy, whether dangerous or innocent, is foundational to all of life and matter.
Seems that the majority of folks have chosen engage the statements in question point by point, so I shall just explore a comment that I found particularly interesting among those made by my peers. Maybe two.
The first comment was that philosophy is like the power button on a TV, a very interesting comparison. This simile was proposed as a refutation of objection two, that philosophy is "trivial. Nothing important is discussed." The point was that the power button is important in the usage of the television set, but those who never used the set would never view it as important.
This simile suggests two things, one being that philosophy is a tool, second being that philosophy is optional.
Certainly philosophy being a tool or a means to an end (like a power button is a means to controlling the flow of power to the telly) helps deal with the objection in number one, but it does not help with the argument that it is trivial. Zippers help keep our clothes on, which is actually really important, but no one lobbies for zippers in political circles. Whether clothing buttons or power buttons, buttons are trivial. They make regular but small impacts on our life. What we tend to view as significant are those things which act as intellectual wrecking balls in our lives, making immediate and obvious changes.
So how can we argue that philosophy is a significant difference maker in our lives? How can we put it in a position that cannot be ignored? I had to answer similar questions when I took a class on rhetorical theory. I had to show that rhetoric not only had those daily uses like allowing us to convey meaning in regular conversation but also show that rhetoric has the potential to make large scale impacts when used to persuade others to a cause. Similarly I would say that philosophy helps us on the daily level, helping us know what is important to us or how to go about or daily lives. Philosophy also helps us when we make those big life decisions because it helps us answer "what is best" and "why." So if philosophy is a button, then you have to say that it is every button, both the button on the telly and the button that launches a nuke.
Second thing I had to address was the statement "philosophy, whether dangerous or innocent, is foundational to all of life and matter." Does this mean that the world is made of philosophy? Would it not be better to say that philosophy is the way that we address all of life and matter? I do not think that some day a scientist will peer through a microscope and then declare, "Oh look, there it is! Philosophy!" Instead I would suggest that philosophy is more like the scope than the sample on the glass. Philosophy enables us to look more keenly at things so we can discover more about it. Philosophy is not everything, but it does touch everything, somewhat like God is everywhere, but God is not everything. Spiritually speaking, we cannot escape God. Intellectually speaking, we cannot escape philosophy. I am only making the comparison here to show that ubiquity does not mean it is everything, only that it is present everywhere.
Forgot to add this at the end of the previous comment.
Micah Walker 11 AM
Matt, I see what you’re saying and I think you have a good point, but I feel like this objection (3) is a kind of copout. I have struggled with the value of Philosophy at times and have wondered if there was something better I could be doing with my time, but that can be said about most disciplines; when I was in biology I often asked myself if it was a waste of time. But as humans I think we discount something as a waste of time, but then we don’t use our time any better. Are there better uses of time? Maybe there are. Did my friends need to know that on Facebook? Probably not. Another thing, just because philosophy might not bring us closer to God, doesn’t mean it can’t. I believe that theology is in the same bout. It should bring me closer to God, but does it always? No, we still have to work at our relationship with Him. If we are honestly going to call philosophy a waste of time, then I believe our list of valuable subjects would become very short. In fact, maybe only the spiritual disciplines would remain.
-Joel Wasserstein (11:00)
I'm pretty sure nearly everything has been said at this point, as far as addressing each objection goes. I don't have much new to say on that. However, I want to challenge the title itself. All these objections hinge on one thing: how you define "studying philosophy."
I think most people would agree philosophy has some purpose, even if they don't see it useful for themselves. It depends on the context of "studying philosophy" you are referring to. Are we talking about a life spent solely thinking about philosophical questions, or do we mean simply a way of thinking about our daily lives? The objections are much more relevant to the first, while the latter is basically unavoidable (unless of course you choose to live an ignorant life without any goals or purposes). Do we mean taking a philosophy class? Getting an undergrad degree in philosophy? Reading philosophy books?
I think all these need to be clarified before any argument can be made. As in any profession, career, activity, or hobby, philosophy must be a moderate aspect of life; not too little, and not too consuming.
In response to number one, three and four, I think it is easy to openly proclaim these objections only because we haven't understood or seen the results which thinking deeply and asking questions brings.In a way, to say these things about philosophy can be a cop-out. This can be more trivial than actually doing philosophy but I guess that is based on personal perspective. In my opinion, I would argue against these objections because philosophy helps deepen our reasoning and thinking on life's questions. It can help point us to greater understanding through argumentation and discussion. This allows us to gain insight and perspective from others and to see gaps in arguments that may not make sense. In all this, this would lead us to a better understanding and hopefully to truth. On another hand, I can agree and defend that philosophy won't give us immediate answers and may not give us our end or desired goals, but this also doesn't make it useless. I would argue that the progress isn't measured by concrete answers or formulas but by more deeper questions.
Isaac M. 1100
Its pointless to engage these four questions individually when each one is flawed in the same way. They each attempt to view the world through the lens of pragmatism (referred to in class as the “practical man”). If life is about achieving net benefits through action, then what good is thought other than achieving a goal? This is the problem that most of my classmates seem to run into on this blog- they can address and even attack the questions, but no one has truly refuted them.
In debate, we approach such mindsets by establishing an alternative framework. You cannot challenge the pragmatism paradigm on its own level because it inevitably co-opts violence and dehumanization to meet its objective. Eventually the pragmatist realizes he or she must kill or oppress someone who is in opposition to their goals or else the velocity of the pragmatist machine must stop and die altogether. This is what pragmatists fear most. Thus it is essential for the ethical philosopher to challenge absolute pragmatism or else admit that philosophy is, indeed, useless.
-Jordan Ryner 11:00 AM Session
In response to Denise.
I agree with you with the fact that Philosophy needs to be balanced with the rest of our life, and with our relationship with Jesus. Moderation in all things, including moderation. As per our discussions in class, philosophy is a part of everyone's everyday lives whether they call it philosophy or not. I agree with you in that we should do what God has gifted us in, however, He is made strong through our weakness. 1 Peter 3:15-17 states that we should always be able to give a defense of our faith. Even if we have not been gifted with the thought of philosophy, I believe it should be part of our Christian duty to at least peruse it the questions that come from it, in order to defend our faith.
Laramie H. (11:00)
1)I feel like philosophy is important in many cases to figure out exactly what a person is supposed to do with their life. I feel like when a person seeks out truth, they are able to find the answers they've been searching for. I believe that philosophy is useful in finding one's purpose in life. I believe that philosophy is important and helpful to us in making decisions because, he is someone we believe we can count on to know what the right decision would be for us, or to know which decisions are not clearly the wrong decisions for us, and to communicate that knowledge to us.
2) I disagree with the statement that philosophy is trivial. I believe that important things about life are discussed and that a person is doing the right thing by making the right decision when one makes these decisions with God's instructions. I believe that logic will get you from A-B; imagination will take you everywhere, or "Imagination is more important than knowledge." I feel like there is too much logic, and not enough fantasy.
3) I don't think that philosophy is a waste of time. However, some may object that philosophy takes the place of common sense and logic. I believe that there are two forms of rationality. One is the human capacity for logical reflection; the other is the construct of classical economics. I believe that philosophy is important to some degree in determining who a person is to become in life.
4) I feel like philosophy is important to each and every person. As one great philosopher said "There's a God-shaped hole in each of us, and the restless soul is searching." I believe that a person is able to do whatever they want in life. I feel like each human has unique dreams, hopes, and desires that need to be fulfilled within this lifetime.
These objections noted in the post bring about some interesting points of discussion. I believe that these points should be considered when studying and learning philosophy in a weighted sense. Each situation of studying philosophy is a mutually exclusive event. At some point you may be studying the philosophy of religion, while at another point you may be studying the philosophy of ethics. Each situation and subject of philosophy is different from one another, and some might honestly carry more weight and be more worthy of your time than others.
Through this lense, the objections listed in the post may actually contain some merit, though at the same time, they may not. It is solely dependent on what aspect of philosophy you are actually devoting your time to.
Austin K. (11:00)
The main question that I had after our first day of class was "what do people actually do with a degree in philosophy, other than being a professor?" I never looked at philosophy as completely useless or a complete waste of time, I just didn't grasp how important it is. Personally, I still have those thoughts a little bit, not when it is being done in our everyday lives, but when people earn degrees in philosophy and spend a huge chunk of time on it. I guess I see it as really important and necessary, but just something people do because they are intrigued about something and want more knowledge on an issue. When looking at the four mentioned objections, already discussed the first one, as for the second one, I do find the questions discussed important, therefore I completely disagree with this objection. For the third objection, I believe that there are better things we could do with our time. However, I do not see it as a complete waste of time. I do not agree with the fourth one. It is true that with many questions, no progress is made, but you have to study it to see if there are possibilities. Many things have been accomplished by studying philosophy, such as discovering new sciences like psychology.
Someone who studies philosophy, is easily going to reject all four of these objections. A response to objection one might be all the things that have been accomplished by people who studied philosophy. For objection two, a philosopher might say that the topics are important as they are apart of our lives. For objection three, a philosopher might say that the time they spend doing philosophy is well worth it as they are constantly learning and discovering new things. For objection four, they may talk about the added sciences that have coem from studying philosophy.
Kara B. 9:00
It should be noted that all of these statements are subjective, so it’s really not a matter of whether they are true but if they can be true. Perhaps philosophy is directly useless in some aspects of life, but as a whole it cannot be evaluated as useless by this subjective evaluation. As for being a waste of time and that we could be doing better things with our time, I believe because the statement is subjective in nature the answer will vary by person. Perhaps the electrician believes that philosophy while on the clock is wasting time; whether it is truly a waste of time must be evaluated from the perspective of the electrician.
An objective statement that can be directly argued is philosophy does make progress. Simply put, many advances in science were due questions asked by philosophers. In fact before there were scientists there were philosophers.
There are numerous examples how philosophy advances mankind and one would be blind not to see it.
(1) It should be noted that all of these statements are subjective, so it’s really not a matter of whether they are true but if they can be true. Perhaps philosophy is directly useless in some aspects of life, but as a whole it cannot be evaluated as useless by this subjective evaluation. As for being a waste of time and that we could be doing better things with our time, I believe because the statement is subjective in nature the answer will vary by person. Perhaps the electrician believes that philosophy while on the clock is wasting time; whether it is truly a waste of time must be evaluated from the perspective of the electrician.
An objective statement that can be directly argued is philosophy does make progress. Simply put, many advances in science were due questions asked by philosophers. In fact before there were scientists there were philosophers.
There are numerous examples how philosophy advances mankind and one would be blind not to see it.
While philosophy only becomes something else as soon as an answer is found, for example: physics, biology or psychology, philosophy can tell us what something is not. What i am trying to say is that philosophy may not give us practical answers for life but it is able to help us know what not to do, therefore, helping us reach our goals. This disproves point 1 in the post that philosophy is useless for reaching end goals.
In many ways i feel that points 2 and 3 are one and the same. If something is trivial it becomes a waste of time and if something is a waste of time it is most likely trivial in said persons perspective. I would say that the meaning of life is an important question and that is a question of philosophy. The meaning of life could determine one's entire direction of their life. Thus disproving points 2 and 3 in one fell swoop.
Point 4 takes me back in a loop to my first point that philosophy is not pointless because even though it seems as though one gets nowhere with philosophy one does get some direction. Definite answers are the products of sciences and sciences are the product of philosophy therefore philosophy does indirectly give answers. When a philosophical question is answered it becomes something else and that gives out answers so in an indirect way philosophy is what has brought us into the modern world through science. Which proves that philosophy is wholly worth taking part in.
-Kyle Classen (9:00)
This is a <>test<>
Darn.
Okay. Testing one more time
Hooray!! Confetti and pretzels for everyone! Now to business.
In summary, it seems most of us totally disagree with the four objection statements. I agree with Jordan Ryder in part that these statements seem to come from a pragmatist’s view, and in order to fully refute them one must challenge absolute pragmatism itself.
However, because it is not clear that these objections come from a pragmatist, I think the critical problem with these questions is that they are incomplete in themselves. They beg the questions “what is the goal (from question 1)? What is important (q 2)? What is best (q 3)? What is progress (q 4)?” These objection statements do not define these terms. Consequently, these objections are incomplete, and these objections cannot be addressed until such terms are defined. My classmates have more or less said the above in their own words (such as “things have different value to different people”).
And ironically, these questions of definition are philosophical.
Humans created philosophy to define things, because, it seems, things don’t define themselves to us, the human race. A plant doesn’t tell us what it is. We tell it what it is. Or, we tell each other what it is and list qualities of the plant that reveal why we define it in a certain way. We reason with each other why a rose is different from a daisy, why it is an entirely separate thing and deserving of its own definition.
The only “thing” that has arguably told us its own definition is God. And then, arguably, He has given definitions to numerous other things, however labeling Himself as the ultimate Definition, or perhaps more accurately, the Ultimate Definer.
Definitions. It’s why philosophy exists.
In the end, these objection statements need philosophy in order to define those terms “goal”, “important”, “best”, and “progress”. Thus undermining the objections’ overarching argument “philosophy is useless”.
Will Coates: I would disagree with you that the above statements are subjective. I would say instead that they are not defined at all. Like we discussed in class, once you define useless, trivial, and a waste of time you are able to see what a person values and that is when you can begin to evaluate if the statements are true or false.
Kara B.: I had the same questions when I started this class,too. I have soon found that philosophy not only helps you learn how to think well, but it helps you evaluate root issues. For example, you can better understand religion or politics or economics if you see the philosophies behind each viewpoint. I think this is why learning about philosophy is important for every major.
Layna M. Lange: What do you mean that "but the two are still not separated, the first does not disappear." I agree that philosophy is the foundations for many areas of study, but I would say that once philosophy is renamed as a different science, then the method of discovering new things in that field is different. So it is no longer philosophy because we have begun to understand this area of study better.
-Annelise
It’s confusing to me to make an accusation that something is useless overall. If something exists then it ultimately was created for a use. An item or idea can only be useless when it exists in a form which it was not originally meant for. In regards to philosophy it can be argued either way that philosophy has been engrained in humans throughout history or that philosophy has been put into places it does not belong. I personally would have to say that philosophy is not chosen to be put in a specific situation but instead presents itself at the appropriate time. I believe that philosophy cannot be taken out of society. Philosophy is itself part of society. It is like trying to take the people out of society. It doesn’t make sense.
If someone says that philosophy does not accomplish anything then they should look at history. Philosophy has been an integral [art in science, war, religion, medicine, and human development throughout the ages. It’s something that molds societies and helped shape the world we live in today.
It’s confusing to me to make an accusation that something is useless overall. If something exists then it ultimately was created for a use. An item or idea can only be useless when it exists in a form which it was not originally meant for. In regards to philosophy it can be argued either way that philosophy has been engrained in humans throughout history or that philosophy has been put into places it does not belong. I personally would have to say that philosophy is not chosen to be put in a specific situation but instead presents itself at the appropriate time. I believe that philosophy cannot be taken out of society. Philosophy is itself part of society. It is like trying to take the people out of society. It doesn’t make sense.
If someone says that philosophy does not accomplish anything then they should look at history. Philosophy has been an integral [art in science, war, religion, medicine, and human development throughout the ages. It’s something that molds societies and helped shape the world we live in today.
- Josh Helminiak
My responses are as follows:
(1) It's useless. It doesn't help us accomplish our ends/goals.
I find this objection false because, at the very least, Philosophy can give us great thinking skills that are incredibly useful. Beyond that, however, it also gives us a deeper understanding of the universe and especially the intangible world of ideas.
(2) It's trivial. Nothing important is discussed.
Important is a very relative word to be using. "One man's trash is another man's treasure," they say. Similarly, what one man finds important, others will not. Besides, common topics like Justice or Peace can have strong arguments to show their significance/importance. These are discussed within the Philosophical realm.
(3) It's a waste of time. There are better, more important things we could be doing with our time.
My responses to objection #1 can be cross-applied here. If my arguments prove its ability to be useful, then it must not be a waste of time!
(4) It's a waste of time. We never get anywhere. We never make any progress. There are no answers to these questions anyway.
Perhaps one lives in a narrow-minded world that stands outside of reality. Wouldn't it be important to get out of that narrow-minded world if that were the case? Some may object to this further, with the claim that they don't live in such a narrow-minded world.
Wouldn't it be nice to know, just in case? Certainly this is not a waste of time!
-Austin Becton (11:00)
1.) Studying philosophy is not useless. It encourages and teaches skills like critical and analytical thinking, and helps us to think more deeply about the world around us. If what Bertrand Russell said about philosophy being the foundation of every discipline is true, then philosophy is especially useful in accomplishing our ends/goals. If philosophy is the beginning of understanding, then it at least accomplishes the goal of setting us on a path to increase our knowledge about the world and how it works.
2.) As discussed in #1, philosophy is useful for understanding and learning about the world and the important “life questions” that we may have.
3.) Just like any other area of study, philosophy is an important discipline. And if it helps us gain understanding about other disciplines and life itself, then it is not a waste of time.
4.) See #3. Also, it may be true that there are mysteries that we will never get to the bottom of in this life, and that’s okay. If those are the questions we’re asking, then philosophy at least opens the door to considering them.
Shelby F. 11:00
My opinion is that each of these potential issues can be neutralized once the basic foundational nature of philosophy is recognized and valued. Any proficient student of the Bible (or any other field) will recognize the need to eliminate unreasoned assumptions. Philosophy creates an intentional foundation of formulated thought on which we can build the superstructures of our knowledge (rather than relying on passive ingrained assumptions). Upon this foundation we can build in faith - because at least then it is a purposeful leap into the unknown. There is honor in bravely leaping off a cliff. There is stupidity in blindly running forward not recognizing that solid ground has dropped off.
I don’t think any of these arguments have any real merit. We’ve been discussing how philosophy is actually beneficial since the beginning of the semester. We have learned how philosophy was the beginning of other disciplines like physics, astronomy, and even some forms of math. Philosophy may not be the primary discipline taught in schools, but most subjects we do learn stem from a philosophical thought from an earlier time. Honestly I do think that some things may be a better use of our time especially if we have obligations that we need to take care of. Sitting around and “philosophizing” when we have things to do is foolishness. And with regard to number four, our ability to make progress on a certain claim depends on how critically we engage it as well as just simply on the subject itself.
- Aaron R. 11:00
In response to Connie D’s comments...I disagree on Philosophy being useless if it is used to “not deal with anything”. I would say that every thought or question we come to is important, yes we may never come to a “tangible” and “definite” answers but they do matter because even with assumptions or guesses, you are still closer to the answer than you were before.
I absolutely agree with your statement about it being up to the person and that it can help broaden one’s mind. This just goes to show that if you put your mind to it and seek things out, you might not get concrete answers but you will broaden your mind.
Your last paragraph even shows that if you go after something whole-heartedly, that it’s not a waste of time. Amen to seeking answers about God! But maybe thinking of the questions that are useless to unbelievers, may lead them to Christ? To the ultimate truth?
-Anna P. (11:00)
(2) The importance of what is discussed in philosophy is relative to one’s interests. With that in mind, I feel that the claim that nothing important is discussed is easily refuted. As for philosophy’s trivial nature, I believe that the search for reason and understanding in itself is simplistic, because the goal is to obtain more knowledge and learn what possibilities are available for a given question. Yes, the continual questioning of issues and ideas can lead to a trivial experience by chasing rabbit trail after rabbit trail, but I feel that the generalization that this statement provides a whole lot of opinion with no regard to what is being said.
GT Davis (9:00 MWF)
(1)If this were so, then the musings of those such as Galileo would not help us accomplish our goals. His scientific and mechanical advancements drove the scientific community and many for his 'philosophical findings'have been better off, including us today. Saying philosophy is useless is an obviously false argument.
(2) If matters of morality, truth, and ultimate meaning are considered 'nothing of importan[ce]', then yes, only trivial matters are discussed. It is not the case that matters of morality, truth, and ultimate meaning are considered unimportant, therefore philosophy doesn't only discuss trivial matters.
(3) If while doing those 'more important' matters you run across a matter of morality, truth, meaning, or other related field, you must have done philosophy to some extent to come up with a satisfactory working answer to be able to surmount challenges in 'more important matters', assuming there are indeed more important things than philosophy.
(4) If a legitimate question is asked, it deserves a search for an answer. Even if there is little or no progress or new knowledge, it is beneficial to try to answer the hard questions. you can insert any example of men in ages past musing over 'impossible tasks' such as flying, self-governance, freedom, moral rightness, any example that draws from men who sought answers and made no progress, and yet we have made progress on those musing s today.
1) and 4) A similar response in support of studying philosophy can be applied to both objection 1 and 4. As Bertrand Russell stated, once the discipline of philosophy begins to accomplish its goals in certain areas of thought, progresses, and finds answers to questions, it ceases to become philosophy and becomes another discipline. Science and theology, for example, are certainly not useless or anti-progressive. If indeed these disciplines(among others) have their roots in philosophy, than 1) and 4) do not appear to have much merit.
2) As for philosophy being trivial, this is clearly untrue. Philosophy aims for the difficult questions which arise from real life experiences. And again, we would not even consider theology or science to be trivial. Philosophical thought deals with important matters.
3) This objection has a possible answer that is somewhat subjective from person to person. (we will set aside the fact that everyone does philosophy to a certain extent and think of philosophy as the disciplined study) I do not believe that everyone must devote their lives to philosophical study and, in fact, many do have more important things to devote themselves to. However, I think those who do devote themselves to studying philosophy do benefit everyone because they help everyone to know the importance of understanding why we do what we do/why we believe what we believe. The importance of knowing why comes from the fact that this gets to the deep heart of each individual. We all need to know our own hearts so we can direct them to God who heals them.
-Andrew S. 1100
I would like to return to my main argument for philosophy: it is necessary to use philosophy in order to argue for AND against it. Once one uses reason to make claims based on value judgements, that individual is using philosophy. So the worth of philosophy isn't necessarily found in the specific study itself. Instead, the value of philosophy is found in all studies and in all walks of life. While I wouldn't dismiss contemplating the given arguments against philosophy, I would say that after careful consideration the arguments lose all merit.
One must see that philosophy is ingrained in the human mind by a creator that created us to think. Any decision one makes is in some sense determined by a philosophical question of "what is good? what is right?" And yes, while religion, especially Christianity answers these question, the the questions of why those truth claims are good, righteous, and true must be thought out. I am not saying one should throw away their faith in order to reliably answers these questions, but instead they should use their faith to answer the questions, and then question their faith under some beacon of truth and goodness in order to determine that what they have faith in is in fact worth having faith in.
Answering the questions of philosophy, taking the time to think and gain knowledge is ultimately an attempt to grow closer to the source of Truth, God. Ignorance and defiance to the truth is a direct violation of God's character and should be seen as sinful. Instead sinful man, in an attempt to glorify and grow closer to God, should see philosophy is very much worthy of study, in no way useless or a waste of time.
Philosophy is something that everyone does, whether they are aware of it or not. So to say that it is useless is to say that breathing is useless. On the thought that Philosophy is trivial where nothing important is being discussed I would have to state my opinion that this is the antithesis of this; the majority of the time the only things being discussed ARE important. It is rare that trivial things are what is discussed. For those who say that it is a waste of time because there are “better, more important things”, what are they? What is more important than cultivating a fully formed person? How can we pursue those better things without discovering what truly is important? Properly using philosophy is how we learn what is truly important; if we don’t know that we cannot then use our time to fix what is wrong, and strengthen what is right. There are answers! They are not easy to determine or they are not always universal, but they are there. Sometimes there are questions that the answer is unknowable to us, but that does not mean that the question should not be raised; in fact these are the best questions to raise.
Philosophy at its core seems to be the search for answers, which is helpful to every aspect of study. Whether in science or politics everyone asks questions and searches for answers. In particular, something everyone must come to grips with in life is the larger overarching questions of the nature of reality. Pursuing answers to these questions is not only meaningful but pertinent to living life fully. As Christians it is imperative that we not only search these answers but find them in the Word. The way one relates to his world can dictate his entire life, and subsequently afterlife. Thus, the vitality of philosophy is realized, and we can dive deep into the study of studies.
-Ivan Priest
1. right off the bat, I would be tempted to secede the point that philosophy doesn't help a great many people accomplish their goals. But I would also argue that the reason for that is because a great many people do not have the right goals. If people do not have the desire to better themselves and truly live well, time spent in philosophy will doubtlessly seem useless.
2. This point I probably have the most blatant objection too. Although modern philosophy has branched out into discussing and exploring almost every area of existence, the historical root of philosophy, and what still takes up much of modern philosophical thought, are the big questions of life; questions with ultimate importance.
3. While it's completely true that everyone couldn't spend the entirety of their days sitting on a couch philosophizing, it is completely reasonable for at least the majority of people to be able to think deeply enough to at least have an understanding of what they believe about life, and the knowledge to know why.
4. I think the great motivation behind philosophy is that there actually is an answer to find, and that that answer is worth the extensive effort required to discover it. Whether people are able to accept these answers and move on is another story, but philosophers seek them none the less
- Patrick Flynn
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